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CVA Warning to ISS

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 1 post(s)
Mr Trouble	Posted - 2006.04.19 13:07:00 - [1] To be honest with you, it looks like CVA are trying to look for a fight, either that or they are stupid. ISS have taken every precaution not to tread on your toes, but you keep changing the goalposts. You tell them you don't claim the space, then after they have put up a POS chain, you change your mind. You're not exactly treating them fairly, and with all this posturing... Well, all I will say is - be careful what you threaten, and why, because it makes you look unprofessional, especially when you are the ones who keep changing your minds. The ISS don't all fly haulers you know, think very carefully before wardeccing them about what you are taking on - because it all seems kind of pointless to me.
Mr Trouble	Posted - 2006.04.19 13:44:00 - [2] Originally by: Tomahawk Bliss If they accidentally placed their stations in CVA space (which has been the same systems for what, a year now?) then it must have been an accident. Can't you read? ISS didnt 'accidentally' do anything. CVA told them they didn't claim the systems they put POS up in, then they changed their minds. ISS can hardly be blamed for CVA's rapid changes of heart.
Mr Trouble	Posted - 2006.04.19 14:51:00 - [3] Originally by: Kular What we need is logs and proof from both sides of the original agreement, so it would be quite clear to see which systems we're claimed by CVA soverign or not. I hardly think two alliances are going to start copying and pasting internal mails onto a public forum, I'm sure they will sort it out between them like grown ups, and let us kids just forum whore rather than give us the evidence and say 'over to you, the jury!'. Both ISS and CVA are both peave-promoting, stable alliances. This is clearly the result of a misunderstading, but I have to say CVA's approach is both aggressive and amatuer in nature. You can't keep changing your mind about what space you want to claim AFTER a POS chain has gone up. And no, we are talking about different systems here - they didn't put them up in the same ones. ISS put POS up outside their claimed space as it shows on the alliance map. But then I'm sure the MC and ISS Navy won't mind someone else to shoot at if CVA really want to take it that far.
Mr Trouble	Posted - 2006.04.19 15:41:00 - [4] Originally by: Kuang Personally sounds like ISS is throwing there own " WAR " card ... then again according to Eyeshadow we are just common " Pirates " ( love when people use that word ... almost used as much as bandwagon ) So much for being neutral Oh look, CDC have joined the fun. You were later than your usual ISS thread whoring. Standards are slipping.
Mr Trouble	Posted - 2006.04.20 10:19:00 - [5] This whole thing is ridiculous. Shame on CVA. You are a small alliance trying to claim a huge area of space, which you can't possibly hope to police effectively. Your existing claimed space is already too big for you and sees you rattling around empty systems most of the time. ISS come along and are effectively offering to help develop and police the area alongside you. How could this possibly be a threat? You dont even claime the space, you 'plan on claiming it'. How ridiculous. I personally hope you are stupid enough to take things all the way with ISS/MC, because at the moment they seem very patient with you, its clear they have no wish to fight. But I'm sure if you keep pushing it they will teach you a few lessons you won't forget in a hurry.
Mr Trouble	Posted - 2006.04.20 10:47:00 - [6] Burzon, the situation is completely different. SA claimed the space, CVA 'plan to claim it' and have no assets in that area whatsoever. They can't police it, they are rarely if ever seen in it, they have no assets there, but they 'might want to claim it in the future' so they go to war with ISS over some POS? I mean, am I the only one who sees how stupid this is? CVA need a lesson in manners and diplomacy, because right now they look very unprofessional indeed.
Mr Trouble	Posted - 2006.04.21 09:55:00 - [7] Originally by: Phiraga The day BoB takes out a nice chunk of ISS' infrastructure is the day I will believe that. Until then, what I believe is what someone said, not long after I thought it. The thought was "ISS may have a lot of BoB alts in it". Don't take offense to it. It was just a thought, that I can't prove. But one guy that flew with BoB said it was true. You totally miss the point. ISS DO NOT OWN THEIR OUTPOSTS. The shareholders do. The shareholders are spread throughout all Alliances in EVE, which is why so few people have any reason or motivation to attack an ISS outpost. Thats why BoB etc have no interest in attacking ISS outposts - they are not stragetically important, and many of their members have a nice income in the form of share dividends.
Mr Trouble	Posted - 2006.04.21 14:15:00 - [8] Originally by: kincajou niten CVA policy = War Dec Please read up from the start and you will understand that you are completely wrong. Really? But didnt CVA wardec ISS while they were still negotiating behind the scenes. I understood thats what annoyed ISS so much.
Mr Trouble	Posted - 2006.04.21 14:30:00 - [9] Well of course not, but if talks were still on-going or the CHANCE of diplomatic resolve was still there, then making the wardec 'official' doesn't look good. CVA were aggressive in their approach from the outset. Aralis has been quoted from a private conversation as being anti-ISS generally speaking, which causes people to ask questions about his real motivations in this.
Mr Trouble	Posted - 2006.04.21 15:03:00 - [10] Originally by: Garreck Yes. If an alliance is talking to us to resolve problems. Which they were. As I recall you declared war while count was ill and unable to connect to Galnet to resume full discussions.

Mr Trouble	Posted - 2006.04.21 15:06:00 - [11] Originally by: Garreck Originally by: Jasmine Constantine Originally by: Riddari Neutrality doesn't exist in 0.0, no matter how many times ISS try to pretend it does. Course it does. Every I see a standingless ship pass me by without me trying to kill it or it trying to kill me is proof of a very pragmatic grass roots neutrality existing between fellow pilots. The whole NBSI theme is a very powerful meme to be sure and it attracts a lot of adherants because its easy and thoughtless to implement but that doesn't mean its the only engagement meme on the frontier. ISS try to implement the don't shoot if not red concept and its to be applauded - its not taking the easy option and running with the herd. Hmph. Interestingly enough, I agree with the Fractionite. CVA have always operated a strict "not red, don't shoot" policy in Providence. We open our arms to any and all who abide by the rules of our space (no piracy, and respect our claims for future industrial development...which is to say don't put up stations in our space without permission.) Well your space is kind of vauge, you change your mind, and not only are you stopping people developing space you actually claim, but even space you 'plan' to claim at some point in the future. The real reason behind this is simple. Aralis doesnt like the ISS and he doesnt want their outposts in Providence (I understand they are being constructed some time in May), so he is going out of his way to cause them problems. Well, good on ISS for calling your bluff.
Mr Trouble	Posted - 2006.04.21 15:07:00 - [12] Originally by: Manfred Doomhammer wich isnt CVAs fault, and wich didnt prevent ISS from deploying these POSes, so what? CVA didnt even claim the space! They 'planned to claim it'. This whole thread is joke. CVA you are digging your own grave.
Mr Trouble	Posted - 2006.04.21 15:13:00 - [13] Edited by: Mr Trouble on 21/04/2006 15:14:28 Originally by: Riddari Mr Trouble is hereby advised to attend reading classes at the University of Caille, his previous academic institution seems to have done a woeful job in the "reading comprehension" seminar. exactly what part of anything I have said is incorrect? 1) CVA did not claim the space, they only planned to at some point in the future 2) They delcared war on ISS over some POS in space they did not currently claim 3) Declaring war on the ISS and being threatening and aggressive from the outset doesnt exactly help their cause 4) Aralis has a personal dislike for the ISS as outlined in his leaked conversation with an MC official, he doesnt want them in Providence AT ALL 5) ISS offered to move the POS 1 system further out from CVA space - they rejected this outright
Mr Trouble	Posted - 2006.04.21 15:24:00 - [14] Originally by: Garreck Originally by: Mr Trouble exactly what part of anything I have said is incorrect? The part about CVA declaring war before ISS had a chance to make some sort of official response about moving/not moving the stations. So you accept the other points then, namely: 1) CVA did not claim the space, they only planned to at some point in the future 2) They delcared war on ISS over some POS in space they did not currently claim 3) Declaring war on the ISS and being threatening and aggressive from the outset doesnt exactly help their cause 4) Aralis has a personal dislike for the ISS as outlined in his leaked conversation with an MC official, he doesnt want them in Providence AT ALL 5) ISS offered to move the POS 1 system further out from CVA space - they rejected this outright
Mr Trouble	Posted - 2006.04.21 15:25:00 - [15] Originally by: Manfred Doomhammer [ cva CLAIMED this space, as was communicated to ISS. NO, they did NOT. CVA said they PLANNED to expand TO the system in question - no-one is questioning this apart from you. CVA have admitted it, ISS have admitted it.
Mr Trouble	Posted - 2006.04.21 15:45:00 - [16] Originally by: Royaldo heres something for you yo think about: 1. look at the alliance map here Funny that, the disputed system is significantly outside CVA's current claimed space. Exactly as I said it was.
Mr Trouble	Posted - 2006.04.21 16:00:00 - [17] So let me ask CVA - are you willing to let ISS keep POS in the system? What harm are they doing?
Mr Trouble	Posted - 2006.04.21 16:03:00 - [18] Originally by: Ridek Cremmen Might one so humble as myself suggest that there are two possible solutions that should be put on the table that would work for either side I think. 1) CVA accepts the bases in the system in question, the ISS agrees that the system remain under CVA control and laws and will provide 10% of the profit from those systems to the CVA. In essence pay taxes for the use of a CVA system to help provide for it's defense. This would allow the CVA control of the system, let them make a profit from the resources and still allow the ISS to use the system just under the CVA laws for access. OR 2) ISS agrees to vacate the systems in question to avoid conflict. CVA agrees to cover the costs associated with the move and to provide escort to ensure the moves safety. By doing this CVA acknowledges that they do have some responsablity in this matter do to miscommunications. By eating the cost of the move CVA shows that is acepts that responsability and ISS acknowledges the soveriegnty of the systems in question. Both solutions are fair compromises that will allow each side to benefit from them. I will gladly offer my services as negotiator in this matter as a disinterested thrid party if needed. (No fee required) This could work - what does CVA say to that? Mind you, I doubt ISS are going to be willing to talk all the time you have them wardecced.
Mr Trouble	Posted - 2006.04.21 16:21:00 - [19] Originally by: Clavius XIV 1) CVA did not claim the space, they only planned to at some point in the future Incorrect CVA claimed the space. The defination of the claim was made available to ISS when they asked (as well as neighboring alliances, namely Huzzah). There are friendly corperations who have asked, been granted permission to put up, and have POS up in the constellation. The only "plans" for the constellation that were discussed with ISS were plans for further development of already claimed systems, not plans to claim, as it was already claimed per the communication with ISS in February. Rubbish - you never claimed that space. Its only when ISS expressed an interest that your borders 'suddenly' expanded by 200%. You must think people are stupid or blind. We know what CVA is playing at here - you don't want ISS in Providence at any price. Have you considered that the local population stands to gain much from ISS developing the region? I for one want their outposts, especially if they are in 'deep providence'. The truth is CVA are just being greedy, you're too small to manage providence, and your 'comedy claim' over half of it is just a joke. Grow up and stop acting like children.
Mr Trouble	Posted - 2006.04.21 16:24:00 - [20] Originally by: Garreck This is hardly relevant to ISS breaking their agreement with the CVA, though. Indeed, it seems to affirm Aralis' alleged ill-will towards them. No, it proves their are ulterior motives. WHY are CVA so against the ISS developing an area of space they rarely if ever are seen in, have no assets etc - when this development will benefit all of providence. CVA are being short-sighted, and I hope you get put in your place. I'm sure ISS would love another 'free outpost'.

Mr Trouble	Posted - 2006.04.21 16:28:00 - [21] Originally by: Garreck Originally by: Mr Trouble No, it proves their are ulterior motives. ISS breaking their agreement proves that the CVA has ulterior motives? Nice. No, CVA suddently expanding their borders by 200% then wardeccing ISS would prove that alone.
Mr Trouble	Posted - 2006.04.21 16:29:00 - [22] I repeat my question: WHY are CVA so against the ISS developing an area of space they rarely if ever are seen in, have no assets etc - when this development will benefit all of providence?
Mr Trouble	Posted - 2006.04.21 16:43:00 - [23] Edited by: Mr Trouble on 21/04/2006 16:43:54 Well come on, I'm sure the residents of Providence are dying to know why CVA want to deprive them of two outposts. so I repeat my question a third time: WHY are CVA so against the ISS developing an area of space they rarely if ever are seen in, have no assets etc - when this development will benefit all of providence?

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